May trip - Gator Hook to Roberts Lakes Strand

[Keith W]

I have a mind to try and reach Robert's Lakes Strand from the Gator Hook Trail on the Monroe Station leg of the Loop. I know the Fl. Scenic Trail runs through the Strand on the eastern end but I have yet to hear of anybody coming in from the west. The first couple of miles of the old Gator Hook logging tram that runs southeast off the Loop has been cleared, but it's all wild after that. The line of the tram is still evident after the cleared path runs out, and I was able to follow it for about another half-mile but it gets pretty boggy in places. Anybody else have any info on this route?

[daniel]

i really enjoy this thread. as i may have mentioned, i am not a hiker... but i kind of have done a similar thing the past 20 years or so on the water... i like to try to go places most people won't. it's sad to say that that is getting harder and harder to do. forgive my dumb question, but what do you guys mean by "tram"? 

[Swamp Hunter]

The logging tram was a railroad to carry out very large Cypress trees to the sawmill.  Many of the cypress railroad ties are still there under the mud and some sections are elevated..

 

I dont know the difference between a railroad and a tram. I guess a tram doesnt go anywhere except to the lumber.

[daniel]

cool, thank you. i will have to try to trek out there at some point... sounds really amazing (as i find most of the state)... i have fished some of the canals that are north of 41... i look at google earth and there seem to be trails up there... do any of you walk up there as well? i mean kind of the "middle" of the state... there also is an old airport or two out there... as i'm sure you are aware... 

[Bill Riley]

Well I made my trek out to the end of the ribbons this Saturday with my son. When you come near the end where it gets thick there is one more white ribbon to the right and one more pink-red ribbon to the left. On our way out we met Keith apparently we passed him while he stepped off the trail to do some photography :).  I put in the coords where we were standing on both sides left and right. After talking with Keith it looks like the north side will be better to try to start the third leg connection again, or at least work my way to the FTL. That's def going to take some time walking through all that looking for signs of  the tram .  By the way When you spoke of a mardi gras mask I was thinking a little mask that someone would wear. I was not expecting that!!! Very cool indeed. The bench area was full of liter but me and my son picked it all up on our way out. Keith it was great meeting you and hope do to that full through soon . 

[Keith W]

Bill, I made it past the "last" ribbons that you saw. I take back what I said about the north side being the best way to go. Dale has already been beyond this point and I found his area of Holey Rock which marks the last point that the tram has been explored up until now. The trail does go around the south side and skirts a big area of pond apple slough and then comes back up to the tram at Holey Rock. Dale thought he was marking the center of the W there, but he actually made it past the center and is at a point where the tram has already made the turn to the SE. This is according to my GPS map that shows the dotted line of the tram. It dead-ends here at a mess of deadfall. I was hampered by having to carry my camera otherwise I would have tried to push through and come out into the cypress glade about 150-200 yards farther on. The small red line that crosses the tram is where I think the hard stuff ends and the trail opens up into clear cypress glade that is easy to walk all the way down to the last leg of the W. This red line is very close to the spot where I came out into the cypress on my walk back in May '08.

I intend to come back in a couple of weeks and finish the job.

[Swamp Hunter]

Thats great Keith and Bill. The aerial view you posted shows how extremely thick the trees are in this area. Its one of the most exciting areas of the swamp IMO and it seems to have some of the best soil conditions for large Bald Cypress re-growth.. The surrounding sloughs contain alligators out of Roberts Lakes. I have stepped on them and its not suggested for those with a weak heart..You are correct, we need to find the dryest path and that will involve looking for RR ties and just busting through in a straight line.

 

I believe I have found the elevated tram before Holey Rock but I couldnt mark it. Its so thick and overgrown that I had to walk on the south side. I tried the northside first but it didnt work very well, you know what I mean. If you find the Gumbo-Limbo tree, you will be on the tram. You know the red peeling bark sunburned tourist tree. Its growing on the elevated tram. Ill post the coordinates later.

 

If you could post the coordinates of the red line it would be helpful.  After the Holey Rock area, I could no longer find any railroad ties and I didnt know what direction to push any further and I didnt know what kind of sloping angle I was dealing with..

 

We have a cool spell coming. You guys are getting me excited again. Im about ready to go myself.

 

[Swamp Witch]

Once you push through it does open up.  On my trips to the Florida Trail and back, I found the easiest way to get through was following the ribbons and then pushing through the obstacle course (as I call it) towards the southeast and the bottom of the W to the east of center (my general waypoint for the bottom of the W to the east of center is 25.815630, -81.057388).  Also involved is a lot of climbing over limbs, stooping under limbs, getting strangled by vines, and of course crawling.  But following the ribbons and then heading southeast through the obstacle course was the easiest path and only involved a few steps of crawling on dry ground (and no strangling vines).  I’m not sure if this path is directly on the tram route because there’s always lots of water when I go through.  It’s tough for me to differentiate between the ties and the downed Cypress.  Thanks guys for posting all this info.  Can’t wait to get back down there and try it again.

[Swamp Hunter]

 It’s tough for me to differentiate between the ties and the downed Cypress. 

 

Yes it is Swamp Witch. The railroad ties will often be shaved flat where the rail set to make it level. Look for unnatural flat edges on the logs along with numerous holes near each end where the spikes were driven. But natural holes do seem to occur in the downed cypress and this can be tough to differentiate. The surest way to tell is to find the steel spikes still embedded in the wood.

 

Another problem I notice in some places the ties were cast aside, some to the left and some to the right, making a zigzag trail on my GPS.. And some places dont have any ties at all.  Im guessing some ties were removed and reused.

[Keith W]

The railway crossties can get moved around by flood conditions. You can ID them by the pair of offset spike holes at either end.

"Its one of the most exciting areas of the swamp IMO and it seems to have some of the best soil conditions for large Bald Cypress re-growth."

Dale, did you see that giant old growth cypress near the spot you found the star orchid? I know somebody did because there's a Gatorade bottle stuck behind a liana that's growing around the tree.

Speaking of bottles and ribbons we really need to do some cleanup back in there. The trail tape has gotten out of hand in many spots. I don't see the need for so much plastic litter when we have such a well defined trail in most spots. I pulled down a bag full on my way out last time and we can easily remove a lot more without losing the trail even when the water is high.

I plan on coming down Friday afternoon March 8 and camp at Mitchells. I'll be at the Gator Hook Trailhead by 6 AM on Saturday. I want to be out on the trail by 6:30 at the latest, about 15 mins before sunrise. At that rate I can be at the Holey Rock by 10.

[Swamp Hunter]

I dont mind removing markers as long as we dont lose the trail. Keeping the trail marked so others may follow is of utmost importance IMO. Sometimes a discarded container may be useful.  I can remember times I didnt bring a container and I needed one to collect swamp water. They are also good trail markers but I agree, kinda shabby.  In the GPS age marking an area for future reference with a bottle or can may no longer be needed. I will do some more cleanup.  I notice the trail people who made the benches left a ton of large iced tea containers but I believe they have a purpose to prime the pump in the dry season. I saw some trash there too but as long as its in the fire it can be burned. I sometimes put trash in a fire pit that I know will be used in the near future. I dont believe the "bench builders" are hunters. 

I agree there are too many ribbons in some places, especially in the beginning. The white strips are not needed. But the water based marking paint will soon fade away, probably after the first hard rain.  We really need a better way to permanently mark the trail but anything else would probably need permission. What else can we do to permanently mark this trail? I refuse to lose all my hard work.

Im going out soon as you guys got me excited.  Im ready tommorrow or Thursday. Should I wait til Saturday? I can probably go again next week.

 

I see you found my orchid. Great observation Keith. Anybody know what kind of orchid that is?  The area may also contain the Ghost Orchid, I am told.

[Swamp Hunter]

We were typing at the same time. I will make an effort to be out Mar 9 at 5AM. I have my camper at the Swamp Ape place. I like to start walking in the dark but I can wait till 6 or 630 or I will see u on the trail. That would be cool.

 

Im just checking my mail now and I see you have identified the orchid as Epidendrum amphistomum. Thanks. 

As far as removing ribbons, think about the 2 hikers that got lost.

[Swamp Hunter]

I want to post 2 coordinates that I believe are on trail. Maybe someone can place it on the map.

The Gumbo Limbo tree growing on an elevated section of the tram is

N  25.81936

W081.06684

 

I found embedded RR ties at N 25.81940

                                         W081.06663