Thermacell

[Rob Stevens]

Does the THERMINATOR work? Sometimes I think yes. Sometimes I think no.  On what kind of bugs? I've heard its not much different from citronella candles. What does everyone think?

[Rob Stevens]

   If you remember I said Bill mason and Cliff Jacobson were my gurus. But to quote Bill Mason  on Cliff's book...

"Canoeing Wild Rivers" by Cliff Jacobson......  One of the best on expedition canoeing. Jacobsen has drawn on  the experiences and knowledge of many well-travelled canoeists. I was amazed at how often we came to the same conclusions on so many aspects of canoeing and living outdoors. He's "out to lunch" though, on tents!"
 
Kim Gass said:

OK. Lake Superior at Christmas.. in a Baker tent... uh huh.

If you said Snowtrekker tent I might have some faith in you

[Rob Stevens]

   My memory was wrong about the citronella.  Its similar to mosquito coils but one site says 50 times the chemical. The chemical is pyrethrum powder from the chrysanthemum plant. Even though its a plant an 8 hour coil delivers the same particulate mass as 75-137 cigarettes and the same formaldehyde as 51 cigarettes.

[Kim Gass]

Yakmaster a Snowtrekker tent is made for a stove inside( it has a stovepipe jack). It make camping below zero cozy and warm. Often at thirty below its eighty above inside the tent.  the only problem I have with it is I always want to bake and eat muffins.

You can only ski off so many muffins.

[Gary M]

Well... about Thermacells (and other repellants):

Rob S did good with his Google search, but I'll just tell what I think I know. (Kim will no doubt straighten out the foggy details for me). This is all based on a handful of years as a pesticide chemist, and a couple more paddling around in the glades.

Pyrethrums are natural repellants that are found in chrysanthemums. And those old fashioned coils do make use of these chemicals... and they do actually repel mosquitoes... at least that has been my experience.

Pyrethroids are synthetic pyrethrums - meaning they are man made similar chemicals. Allethrin, the acitve ingredient in the Thermacell pads are one type of pyrethroid... and they too seem to repel mosquitoes... at least that has been my experience too.

Although I suspect the crap about how many cigarettes a coil is equivalent to was thought up by the marketing crew who got the contract to advertise for Thermacell.  Did they mention how much particulate mass one inhales sitting by a fire when the wind shifts. I doubt they mentioned that.

But speaking of smoke, anyone who has read a few books on life in the glades - back then - knows that using a smudge was common practice. The preferred fuel, at least down south, was black mangrove - well seasoned and dead but still high in the bush. It may or may not contain some chemical repellant, but I suspect the fact that it becomes very light and corky, and will smolder and smoke for hours may be the more important factor. It also seems to work... at least that has been my experience.

It is not the most appetizing aroma, though, but if diluted with cypress needles, the resulting smoke is rather pleasant. I load up a beekeepers smoker to first fumigate the campsite, then let the smoker gently fume for the duration. 

Of course there is DEET and it works without a doubt (on mosquitoes), but most anyone who has relied upon it for more than a few times begins to loath it. I will not put it on my skin anymore, but find it works in emergency situations when applied to clothing.

For clothing Vivian mentioned Permethrin (also called Duranon). It is actually an old pesticide. It "repels" mosquitoes by physically harming them when the light on your clothes. I am kinda surprised it is still allowed as it has been banned for almost all other use by homeowners. It was not that long ago that you could buy it a Home Depot. But it does work. I will not use it though.

A relatively new player (at least in N America) is Picaridin. It  has been in use outside the US for a long time (BayRepel) and now it can be found in the "DEET free" versions of many common bug spray manufacturers. It works well (for mosquitoes) and unlike DEET is not greasy, smelly or nauseating. It is also water based and will not melt your plastic.

What about No-see-ums? I have had success with the lemon / eucalyptus stuff. It does not work for long, but it does work - but be ready for a very strong bouquet and an eye watering menthol experience. It is not unlike wiping down with Vicks Vapo-rub. For those who use Skin So Soft... you can have mine. Smearing down with Vaseline probably works just as well.

Other ideas:

Although I've not tried it, I've heard that making a smudge out of Dogbane (a common shrub in drier parts of FL) will also keep a campsite comfortable. Wax Myrtle (not smoked but crushed and rubbed on skin or clothes) is also supposed to work. I just happen to have one in my yard and I've tried it but I don't get mosquitoes anywhere like in the glades, so while it seems to work I won't be relying on it in the mangroves.

And then there are the deer flies... the only thing I know that works for them is canvas. They can inflict their damage easily through thinner fabrics. In fact, wearing a Buff is counter productive as you don't feel them land.

[vivian]

Gary, I want to camp with you one day so you can demonstrate that beekeepers smoker. Would it fit in my canoe???

I have looked into permethrin as it relates to human toxicity/cancer risks. There is no evidence I have come across to support these risks in the way I am using it to spray clothing. I do wear gloves, a face mask and spray at my terrace away from plants and animals in low wind situation. Once it dries on your garments, it should not be a risk from what I have read. If you come across more info please share as I know many of my friends also use this product at least twice a season when heading out for hikes where ticks are present and when on long paddling trips. I won't use it for regular overnight or 2 night trips.

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/Permtech.pdf

Deer flies are aggravating and don't seem to be much bothered by deet spray either. I only spray deet on my hat, cuffs of shirt, pants and my BUFF never on my skin. What seems to work (besides a head net) has been dipping my canvas Tilley hat in the water and putting it back on my head. Why this works I have no idea but it got me through a particularly bad patch of deer flies while on the hells bay trail.

[Rob Stevens]

   Gary. Thanks for your great post. I tend to think that any smokey fire works. My guess is that in the glades black mangrove was the best and most common wood for creating smoke. I've read that along with our breath, CO2,  mosquitoes follow our heat. Its pretty neat, just like Jack London's short story on panning for gold. Anyways I wonder if the heat of the fire confuses the mosquito.

   I'm one of the lucky ones who insect bites doesn't bother me much. Maybe I'm just an insensitive oaf. We keep the therminator handy to slide out the tent door at sunrise. Most of the time it seems to work. Sometimes it doesn't seem to work. Obviously the bugs disappear last on the far side of the tent.  Not a scientific study because maybe the bugs work shift is over at sunrise.

   Speaking of Jack London here is my secret for dealing with biting insects. You ready? Books. Get in your tent at sunset and rise at sunrise. Just be careful with nose bustters like "A People's History of Florida 1513- 1876"

[yakmaster]

I understand the concept, just can't understand the lifestyle. Any place you have to shovel your way out of in the morning, is not a civilized place to live.

But don't worry, lots of people don't understand why I go out into a mosquito infested swamp, jus for kicks...



Kim Gass said:

Yakmaster a Snowtrekker tent is made for a stove inside( it has a stovepipe jack). It make camping below zero cozy and warm. Often at thirty below its eighty above inside the tent.  the only problem I have with it is I always want to bake and eat muffins.

You can only ski off so many muffins.

[Rob Stevens]

Yes, but in the summer don't you have to throw a rock just to clear a path through the mosquitos.
yakmaster said:

I understand the concept, just can't understand the lifestyle. Any place you have to shovel your way out of in the morning, is not a civilized place to live.

But don't worry, lots of people don't understand why I go out into a mosquito infested swamp, jus for kicks...



Kim Gass said:

Yakmaster a Snowtrekker tent is made for a stove inside( it has a stovepipe jack). It make camping below zero cozy and warm. Often at thirty below its eighty above inside the tent.  the only problem I have with it is I always want to bake and eat muffins.

You can only ski off so many muffins.

[yakmaster]

Like I said, some folks don't understand how I live either...

But thank God for August in South Florida. If it wasn't for the summers, this place would be EVEN MORE overcrowded & we couldn't afford to live here!

We have August so that the snowbirds go back home.

[Kim Gass]

Don't worry about us snowbirds. We go to Collier Seminole one night. The Everglades for ten-14 in the backcountry and leave for home..

Oh yeah a little exploration in the Big Bend and some N Florida rivers.

To this date I have NEVER been to Miami.

PS. We say the same thing about you heah in Maine in Sept.. "Thanks for a great summer and leaving money. Now go home. Lobster now half price".

:)

[yakmaster]

Next time you come down, you GOTTA come over to Miami, we'll show you what you've been missing!

I bet you'd LOVE Biscayne National Park (especially Jones Lagoon)

[Kim Gass]

Well yeah I do like Biscayne.. I can see Miami from there...close enuf!  As yet I haven't done any kayak camping there. How come Elliott Key is closed?

Been to Boca Chita for a tour..

Did we lose the Thermacells? BTW I just packed mine. While I have little faith in it, I have pads and butane cartridges. Can't hurt.