Replacing a kayak with a canoe -- advice?

[Jonathan]

Hi everyone. I'm an avid hiker and backpacker looking to spend more time on the water. I have a sit-on-top kayak that I got in high school, but it gets limited use because I have multiple complaints with it, among them:

-- I find the seating position highly uncomfortable (even with a good seat);

-- I can't (comfortably) stand in the boat, or walk around, lie down/sleep in it, etc.;

-- it has limited capacity for camping (and I can't take a friend);

-- it's annoying to not be able to get to my food, tackle, camera and other gear, and to have to worry about it sliding into the water when I do;

-- it's a major pain to pack the boat up (through the hatches) for an overnight trip.

Basically, the problem with the boat is that it's a kayak. So for all these reasons I'm seriously considering selling the kayak and getting a canoe. Unfortunately, I don't know much about canoes and am not sure how to evaluate them and what features to look for in one, so I could use some advice.

The boat would generally be used for trips of 2 to 6 days.  (I'd like to eventually do the whole WW, but that's a while down the line.) I'd like the option to take a friend with me, if possible, but would usually be paddling solo. It also needs to be something I can car-top alone.

How many of you use a canoe for solo trips in the glades, and what has your experience been? I'd appreciate any suggestions, such as:

-- Would it be reasonable to expect that I could comfortably paddle a smaller tandem alone? Or would I likely need a solo canoe? (I'm in my twenties, but short and light -- ~115 lbs). 

-- Can canoes generally be poled? Are there particular features I should look for in a boat if I'd like to be able to pole it?

-- What are your opinions about canoe materials for the 'glades?

-- Any suggestions for particular models that I might want to consider? Or avoid? (I'm a college student, so I'm on a budget and will probably be getting something used.)

-- Does anyone use one of those small trolling motors on a canoe? Is it worth the expense/trouble? If I'd like to be able to use one, should that affect my boat choice in any way?

-- Is there anything in particular that I should watch out for?

Any advice on any of these subjects would be appreciated!

[Jason Berry]

Hi Jonathan, I can't really speak for paddling solo from the rear position as I've never done it for any extended periods (usually only when my tandem partner in the front takes a break). If you have enough ballast to properly balance the boat it should work for soloing as well and this is definitely an option to consider. It really all depends on the boat and load. You will definitely have more room to reach the water considering the canoe will be much more narrow at the ends. Any control you may lose being further back from center could be negated by the advantage of less reach over the side giving you more leverage and a more true/efficient stroke. 

As far as length limits, I've personally never had any issues even with the 18.5ft Lamoille. Most recently we've gone up Charley Creek with both of my boats (friends paddling the Lamoille), no issues in fairly tight stuff. There are some "canoe gymnastics" involved when in tight creeks but you can usually squeeze through by taking your time and positioning the bow or stern in the right spots to get the proper angle to move by. I've been in plenty of twisty mangrove tunnels and cypress swamps with my long canoe. A smaller length makes navigation in twisty areas with cypress knees and mangrove easier for sure, but I've never been completely stopped in my path and forced to turn around because of the length of the boat. Normally complete overgrowth of the trail or lack of water stops me first. A little creativity and not just trying to blast down the trail will get you through even the tightest stuff. That's part of the adventure in my opinion.

Seventeen feet is a long solo canoe and probably not the ideal length for everyone. One thing to consider though... The Lotus BJX built in Florida by the late Mike Galt was designed specifically for Everglades guide Bardy Jones. This canoe is 16'9" and while technology has changed making shorter boats more efficient, I don't think you can discount a boat as non-Everglades material simply for length. Find the boat that fits your needs first, it will get you just about anywhere you need to go. 

Jason

[Kim Gass]

The BJX was created for Everglades Paddling. There is are some pix of it in action somewhere.

I too lust after a sea canoe. I did some of Lake Superior this summer in a Rapid Fire though not being able to afford a Sea Wind. I keep looking for used sea canoes. I think I will have to do the northern coast of Superior next year again in a RapidFire.

As for Jonathans questions, control of a tandem is iffy from backwards on the bow seat. Much better kneeling on a kneeling thwart about 18 inches aft of the center and ideal kneeling snugged up to the yoke, and kneeling in the bilge on one side.  Sitting backwards from the bow seat not a problem in areas of big water..and you have plenty of water ballast to keep the bow down..but in mangrove tunnels its kind of a form of ping pong.

My Peregrine is kind of fun on those little backwater trails like Noble Hammock. At  almost 16 feet LOA she can still be laid down on the rail and spun. Not so much laid down with water jugs..though.

[00640flkqr3zy]

If I ever need to paddle a tandem canoe while solo, I kneel with my back against the center thwart or else simply sit in the bow seat facing what used to be aft.  The canoe certainly doesn't care which end goes first, and this usually results in a pretty good weight distribution.  

You could also always reposition the seats or even add a center seat too.  I converted an old Mohawk tandem into a solo when I was just getting started, and even pulled the gunnels in to create additional tumblehome and improve stability.  I had it out to Pavilion Key a couple times (during ideal weather).

[Jonathan]

Hi everyone,

So, it took me a while, but I finally got one : )! It's a (well-) used Mohawk Blazer 16.

Thanks for all your advice; it helped me figure out what I was looking for. I tried this boat out solo on a local creek and it just felt right, and it's big enough that I could take a friend with me and stable enough to fish comfortably from. 

So I took it out to the glades for a first trip -- crossed West Lake and then came back. In a light breeze, paddled solo with a kayak paddle, it glides along quite nicely.

I'm thinking of picking up a 12-foot closet pole to experiment with poling and see if it might be worth buying (or building) a decent canoe pole.

Does anyone have suggestions for a good place to practice poling, or just good day-trips I could take this time of year (without being eaten alive) to build my skill-level with the new boat? Thanks!

[vivian]

Congrats on the new canoe! Look at practicing your poling skills along the western shoreline of Biscayne Bay. Many places to launch from Matheson Hammock all the way south to convoy point. The water is crystal clear and shallow. You might even see some bonefish and permit so bring a fishing pole too.

[Gary M]

Jonathan,

To learn to pole, do yourself a favor and practice the first few times where there is a hard bottom... like in the Keys, ocean side.

As you will find out, poling on a soft, sticky bottom adds another dimension.  Its best to get the feel for how hard you (don't have to) push, before you go to a place like Snake Bight.

I see the water in West Lake was as beautiful as ever!