Canoe spray decks.

[vivian]

Just curious to know how many of you use soft spray decks on your canoes? I use the Cookes deck with the brass snaps. Love it when it's cold and raining. Hate it when camping on chickees.

[Terry]

I don't have any spray decks. However, both my canoes are the old style aluminum with higher freeboard
than any of the modern plastic canoes and they have turned up ends. I have successfully maneuvered
both of them in surf at Cape Sable. I pack my stuff in heavy mil trash bags and have homemade 1 inch
high floor boards so if I do take on any water the gear stays up off the bottom. I do take on rainwater
so I keep a large sponge in a handy location. I've managed to do the last 3 through trips without
getting my feet wet...I'm due for some rain.

[Bob Quirk]

Terry I have a question. I bought an old mohawk 17 off craigslist this spring. It's a tandem and I solo it most of the time sitting on what is supposed to be the forward seat and paddling stern first. In this position I am still to far aft to controll the boat in high winds and I have to kneel in front of the seat. Is this how you paddle your Gruman in high winds or have you come up with a better solution?

[Terry]

I sit, no kneeling, the same as you describe - backwards in the front seat.
I also paddle conventional with a single blade, I haven't even graduated to a bent paddle.
High wind is my most difficult situation,
I'm able to control it but sometimes it seems I don't make any progress, so in
windy conditions I'm hugging the edges to get through a bay where the kayakers are just
zipping through the middle. But then I paddle when I need to paddle, if I want to zip
through the middle of a bay I'll use my powerboat.
Here's a number of things to consider: First, I use my aluminum 15' for solo,
I never even attempted to solo my Grumman 17', it's an ocean liner.
Try a shorter canoe and you will see a huge difference,
so much so that Marathon (the ones that bought Grumman) makes a tandem 13' that I've had
my eye on. If only I wasn't so cheap and had the room to store a third canoe.
I've never tried it but knowing the difference between my 17 and 15, I'd bet I could whip
a 13 around in a hurricane. The ultimate for day trips, especially in what paddling is good for,
tight spots, backcountry. The next time we're out working on a trail somewhere and we
have our canoes we'll swap, I'll have my 15 for the Lost Portage 2009. Second,
aluminum canoes tend to have a little sharper and deeper keels than plastic
canoes that slows the canoe down but aids in control. I make up for the speed by paddling with
a Clement 24x9 blade paddle, I call it the pizza flipper. I'm a strong paddler and can deliver powerful
strokes all day but obviously solo in a metal canoe I'm still slow by paddling standards.
Carrying a lot of supplies and camping comfortably is the reward for a turtles pace.
Third, make sure you distribute the weight of your supplies.
Even the day trip ice chest makes a big difference in the other end of the canoe, shove
it as far forward as possible. All those water bottles? Shove them in the bow, when you want
a drink, walk for it. Shifting the weight not only sinks the bow down a little more to lessen the
sail effect but it also places the keel better in the water.

[Keith W]

Next to keeping water out of your boat, the biggest advantage of a spray deck is that it cuts the effect of the wind by a fair percentage. The cover allows the wind to blow across the top instead of catching the inside of your gunnels. I've crossed Florida Bay coming back from Carl Ross Key in the face of a 20 knot northeaster after a cold front, which is something I never would have considered doing in an open canoe. I had waves breaking across the boat in the deeper channels and stayed dry from the waist down, with the skirt cinched up around my chest. On the way back I had a well-intentioned motor boater throw me a line and offer to tow me back to Flamingo, and it was quite gratifying to thank him for the offer and wave him off.

It *can* be a pain to get the deck snapped back on when packing up from a chickee platform.

[vivian]

I've tripped out of touring kayaks and SOT kayaks. Using a dedicated solo canoe with a spray deck is no different than a kayak when crossing large bays in 20-25 knot winds. I am not the strongest paddler and have no problems staying on course. My canoe is 14' 9" long and have tried paddling tandems solo. It's definately alot more work than using a solo canoe. I can't control a 16-17 foot tandem in any kind of wind. Bob definately try a solo boat if you can, it's a totally different experience than your 17 Mohawk.

[Bob Quirk]

Unless I find a good deal on craigslist or some similar place a nice solo is not in my immediate future. However campiing in the 16 ft Mohawk is definately in my future. I may even try to manurfacture my own spray shield probably just for the bow to just aft of amidships. So far I'm happy with the way it paddles solo except for high winds. I have found the solution is to kneel a few feet foward of the seat, then the bear turns into a pussycat.Unfortunately spending a few hours kneeling on a bad knee is probably not a good option.

I think its more a center of effort thing then a freeboard thing but I will try putting some more weight forward. I am considering buying a $60 seat from Mohawk and installing it in a better position. I think that the new seat coupled with a home made spray shield might do the trick. then other than being heavy to load I may have it licked. The canoe sure will open up alot more gear options. Even the adventure island, which is only good for coastal cruising won't carry all the crap I can stow in the canoe.

Terry where did you get the large blade paddle? I think that may be a good option for me in high wind situations.

[vivian]

Adding a seat where you could bring your weight foward and take pressure off your knees if you kneel sounds like a plan. Check out this source fo seats, saw some for less than $60:

http://essexindustries.org/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1

If I were to do the spray deck over, I would have added zippers to middle portion so I would just leave them snapped to the hull and open the zippers to get at gear. I've seen them made with velcro attachments that would be good for partial covers. The velcro would need to be the Dual Lock type sewn to the cover and other side attached to hull. Dan Cooke won't make full spray decks with velcro. He thinks it is dangerous should you capsize and have the deck skirt attached to you. But for partials that should not be a problem.

[Bob Quirk]

Well, it's official I can battle the wind in the canoe as is but it sucks. I went Thru Coot Bay Pond yesterday and then over to Mud Lake. I knew going over downwind that the wind was going to be bad on the way back as I sailed accross Coot Bay. I foolishly left my wheels in the car so I could not really doo the loop and pop out the Buttonwood effectively cutting in half the upwind leg. After a good mornign of fishing Mud Lake, 6 snook and a small tarpon I headed back. I placed my small cooler and taklebox in the bow and off I went. At first it was not to bad if I leaned forward I could get my paddle blade in just forward of amidships which made the steering manageable. It was not till halfway across while getting hit with little wind fronts and getting thirsty that I had trouble. Pausing my stoke while I drank from my water bottle a gust got ahold of my bow and it was off to the races. The only way to get headed back to my destination was to kneel and paddle forward of the amidships position. With the increased wind and chop I could sit back up on the seat occasionally but I had to paddle my butt off. I was beat when I finally arrived in the lee of the shore and things setled down.


So. an seat and a cover are definatley on my list before any extended expeditions. I have been thinking of how to design the front cover and I thought of velcro to the sides and some type of batton or pole on the aft edge to keep spray and rain from funneling into the canoe.

[Keith W]

edscanoe.com will sell you a beautiful wood and cane contour seat for about $40.

http://www.edscanoe.com/canoeseats.html

[Amazon Bill]

All this talk about solo canoes and kayaks got me thinking on how to convert my Old Towne 147 tandem to a 'solo' version. First was to move the thwart forward, which required the hardest task, penetrating the gunnel by drilling the first hole. After that traumatic yet satisfying event, a few test runs sitting on cushions where in order to pick the best seat location. The seat design was modified from a Youtube video. A 3/4 inch red oak seat with 2x4 braces, 6 bolts through the gunnel, lots of measuring, sanding, and spar varnish yielded a good bench. Borrowed one of those folding tube frame seats and quickly realized comfort and stability for a wide load was key.

Found a great kayak/canoe seat at Yak-Gear, the Manta Seat. http://www.yak-gear.com/shop/Yak-Gear-Manta-Ray-Seat It works great, is quite comfortable, very stable with the brass clips and stabilizing straps. Here are a couple of photos.

[Terry]

Why not just paddle backward from the front seat like I do in my Grummans?

That way I have a solo or tandem just by which direction it's put in the water.

Very handy when you're taking a group and you have a no-show.

Judging by the thwart positions in metal canoes I think the manufacturers

were thinking of that.  I use to solo my 15 backwards, even soloed from

Flamingo to CSSP in it, then I found an ancient 13 tandem Grumman on

Craigslist and have been in love with it ever since....best canoe in my fleet. 

I also use a tandem Old Town backwards when I solo for the park

but it's a smooth bottom 14+ canoe and without a keel I find it very hard to handle in any

wind.

[Kim Gass]

I have paddled the Curtis Nomad and Hemlock Peregrine with Cooke Spray Skirts (fortunately the same skirt fits both). I can't see soloing  (for me) a Grumman or any other tandem in the Gulf with high winds..especially from a seat distant from the center ( the bow seat backwards is best). But I know folks who do.

My Swift Raven is deep enough so that I didn't bemoan the lack of a spray skirt.

BTW keels do very little to help with tracking. They simply aren't long enough.  However I suspect the tracking issues might have something to do with technique as well as being away from the pivot point. Soloing from a distance is the same as steering a shopping cart in the store backwards.. Try it on Senior Citizens Day!

Now I have a Mad River Monarch.. can't wait to try it in the Gulf.. Yes with another CCS spray skirt. I had a blast for three weeks on Lake Superior.

Yes I have access to a Grumman. It used to be mine. 15 feet and no you could not solo it backwards on the bow seat. It had a thwart right there.