rookie question: aerial maps...

[david blumberg]

Hi,

For navigation on our impending Chatham R loop we have a compass, gps units, and the waterproof charts of the area.  I have been reading here about the value of aerial charts, I guess from Google Earth, but I dont have any experience using them.  are they more likely to be accurate than the waterproof charts?  with a compass and aerial chart can you  figure out where you are?  Do you keep literal track of your position on the aerial map as you travel? are the aerials at low tide?

any links or tips to help a rookie 'glades navigator would be appreciated...I have a Garmin Etrex Legend with Fla maps loaded, and have waypoints along our route.  could someone please tell me how to use the aerials?

When we do a multi-day down river trip, I can match our position vis a vis the terrain in the GPS with my river map and keep track of where we are.  I was assuming I could do the same with the waterproof charts...

[david blumberg]

hi terry,

thanks for the ideas.  We will certainly consider this.  My wife and I are the advance guard, the other 2 boats wont be there till Saturday night, so Sunday is the earliest we can launch.

we have a particular interest in the Chatham R loop, as I and my  wife, and others in the group have read Shadow Country, and were looking forward to that connection...I will break out the maps, and pass this on to the others...

[david blumberg]

hi terry,

when you say start at Turner, where do you mean?  what would be the campsites from Turner to CSSP?  I just got my hands on the Johnny Malloy book, if you want to reference anything in that.

thanks

[Terry]

Start at the Turner River launch in BICY, paddle down to the new chickee,

Crooked Creek or go straight to Watsons, for a tourist route.

Better, start at Turner go across Sunday Bay take the Northside to

Sweetwater Chickee.  I soloed in an open canoe from

Darwins to Turner River and the highway in one day back in '02.

The next days go to whatever sites you want working your

way so that your last night is at Picnic Key, then the last day

go into CSSP.  If you're worried about the distance between

Picnic and CSSP, arrive at Picnic the day before your last day and

spend the last night on one of the islands in the Ten Thousand Island NWR, no

permits required in the refuge and plenty of sand beaches.   Using Turner and

Northside puts you in protected back country for most of your predominate

wind direction, as you go toward more open water you will be heading more

NW.  Simple.

Spell it out?

1) Tourist: Turner River to Lopez or Crooked Creek

    Gladesmen: Turner River to Sweetwater via Northside.

2) Tourist: go to Watsons Place

    Gladesmen: Go past Gopher Key take Charley Creek to New Turkey Key,

           or Morman

3) I don't know how many nights do you have?

4) Tourist and Gladesmen: End up at Picnic or Tiger Key

5) Tourist: Camp on a key in the refuge, White Horse is good.

    Gladesmen: Paddle into CSSP.

6) Tourist: Paddle into CSSP

   Gladesmen:  Plan the next trip to take in more.

You only have to be in the EC/Coo-coo amusement park long enough

to get your permit, quick enough to avoid any prolong exposure.

[david blumberg]

many thanks for those details and all your advice...we are doing 5 nights, launching on Sunday...

reading the posts here has been a great aid in learning "how to think about it all"

Philosophically, we are with you on avoiding EGC & choko, motorboat and other traffic, and staying in the wilderness as much as possible.  but I think our Plan A, the Chatham R loop out of choko, using the Northside route to return (or reversed) is ambitious enough for our first trip, touristy though it may be.  hopefully, we will have fun, and build confidence for a more adventurous plan next time.

[vivian]

I agree with Tony, try to leave OR by 8:00 am.  If you already have your permits the day before and are leaving Collier Seminole by 5:30 am it is not too far to OR from there.  It usually takes me one hour to load the canoe. Have someone run the car shuttles while another person finishes loading the boats.

Get out to the gulf as quickly as you can with the tide. Do stop at Turtle Key for a break and to get your bearings. There is a nice sandy area just on the east side that is on the opposite side of Rabbit Key pass (across Lumber Key).

[david blumberg]

Vivian, depending on the weather, that will be our plan.  we will shoot for 730.  good idea on running the shuttle with people working... how much time would we save by launching at Island Park?

Monday actually looks like a better day: tides an hour later, less wind predicted, and shifting from ENE to ESE...

are 15 mph winds/waves on the gulf hazardous? we are all good paddlers, but dont want to get in trouble, either...an ENE wind would be 90 degrees to our starboard beam when we turned for Pavilion...when do you start getting concerned with wind speed?

[vivian]

Actually, with ENE winds staying close to the islands will give you some protection, the back bays are alot more worry in high winds. As long as tide is high you can stay close to the islands. Plan your route for wind protection as much as possible.

My limit is a 25 mph wind I can make progress in 15-20 knots but very slowly.

OR will be easier for loading canoes and shuttle. Very little difference time wise.

[david blumberg]

thanks, another rookie mistake, I thought the wind dial I was looking at pointed in the direction of the wind, not from where it originates...(if it was a real dial, pivoting in the center, it would point in the direction  the wind was blowing! the pointer should be in the center) 

that will make things more reasonable...by the time we get into the Gulf it will be low tide. can we still land on Turtle Key at low tide?  

I'd like to say again how much i appreciate the advice and info I have gotten on this site.  I know it must be hard to answer the same basic questions all the time.  I do  read the archives...It will certainly make our trip more fun and more safe.

[vivian]

Look at you nautical chart, do you see the depth of water. These are measured at low tide. No trouble with break at Turtle as it sits on the channel. You'll figure it out :-)

[Terry]

Oh for God's sake, you've planned enough just go.

Do like all of us did - gain 99% percent of our knowledge

by pounding out that first through trip.

In '75, punks in their 20's with a lot of one night paddling trips

under our belts to Cape Sable and around Flamingo we thought

we were bullet proof and ready.  We EVEN had all 3 nautical charts

so who's to worry about tides, wind and currents.  No problem-oh.

Permits?  aerials? GPS?  Gatorade?  Didn't exist.

Remember the oiled canvas tents?   We

survived on Tang and Spam heated with Sterno paddling the

same metal canoe I use today.

At just a few years after the WW was created even the rangers

were mystified, they had so few paddlers they said "well just launch

off the seawall",  in the EC ranger station harbor, "be sure to

sign the log at the campsites in case we have to come look for you"

as we paddled away.

Off we went overloaded and swamped by a shrimp boat before we

got to the Choko bridge.   Sneak by Darwin we heard he's a scary

man.  Overly cautious to let go of the magenta

line the wind in Lostmans Bay almost sank us just before we crashed

into the mangroves and said "now what?".   Yes, yes, of course we

hit the Nightmare wrong and we have the same faded ektachrome

everybody has of them up to their waist in mud.   "Man, can this water

flow up Shark River!"  "Who's idea was this?" "Yours" "But it was your

idea that got us stuck in the Nightmare."    Whitewater Bay?

Well the line goes through the middle guess we need to go there

and, of course, once in the middle the waves looked like

mountains to these to jerks.  The only thing that saved us was

Wedge Point Camp.

Ah but Onion Key, now THAT was a top quality camp ground,

and we HAD to climb the water tower at Plate Creek Bay.

So plan away, go, end up off your plan and come back with those

same experiences that we all have from that first trip.

[Kim Gass]

Pre trip jitters We have all been there. We lived through our first trip and second and sometimes more.

I have fond memories...the tide goes out HOW far on Rabbit Key..what kind of mud will hold me up and what wont?  When will it be high tide (I misread the table...later..now lets drag!)

I have to pee..can I get out of the boat here? (somewhere on the Lopez River.) Answer sometimes yes sometimes no.

That Mud Bay is just that at low tide..

That it can freeze in the Everglades. That I can have fun stranded for four days at Mormon Key because of high winds . That I can paddle solo at night! (I did not want day 5!)

Things go in cycles and change is part of the landscape. Just roll with the flow and enjoy every moment.

One of the cycles is  SPAM. It now comes in solo servings and is back on the dinner list after a forty year absence with mixed veggies, and potatoes and gravy.

Nothing finer at sunset under a bug net.

[david blumberg]

thanks to all for answering my persistent, and sometimes stupid, questions...Just trying to avoid any gross blunders, and also maximize the fun and enjoyment of our visit to this special area....I am researched out, but we are ready to roll. I'll post a trip report, especially any carnage, as that's always the most entertaining and enlightening...

hope to meet some of you on the water!